Cultivating Creativity: Biomimicry in the D&T Classroom

In this episode of Talking D&T, I'm delighted to chat with Venessa Lourdes Silveira, a PhD student in Educational Theory and Practice with a fascinating background in design and technology education. We dive into Venessa's action research project on promoting creativity in secondary D&T classrooms through biomimicry.

Our conversation explores how nature-inspired design methods can spark student engagement and innovative thinking. Venessa shares insights from her collaborative work with classroom teacher Paul Maburu, revealing how outdoor learning experiences and carefully crafted prompts can transform students' design processes.

We discuss the challenges and rewards of implementing biomimicry in D&T lessons, touching on its potential to address wider issues like climate change and mental health in education. Venessa's approach offers a fresh perspective on moving beyond design fixation and embracing local knowledge and resources.

For D&T educators, this episode provides practical strategies for incorporating biomimicry into your teaching practice. We consider how cross-curricular collaboration, particularly with science colleagues, can enrich design projects and deepen students' understanding of the natural world.

Whether you're teaching in the UK or internationally, Venessa's research offers valuable insights into fostering creativity and environmental awareness through D&T. As you listen, consider how you might adapt these ideas to your own classroom context.

How might biomimicry reshape your approach to design challenges? Share your thoughts with colleagues and join the conversation about the future of D&T education.

Acknowledgement:
Some of the supplementary content for this podcast episode was crafted with the assistance of Claude, an AI language model developed by Anthropic. While the core content is based on the actual conversation and my editorial direction, Claude helped in refining and structuring information to best serve listeners. This collaborative approach allows me to provide you with concise, informative, and engaging content to complement each episode.

Chapters

• 0:06 Promoting Creativity in Design Education
• 12:09 Engaging Students Through Nature Design
• 20:54 Fostering Creativity Through Biomimicry Education
• 31:33 Exploring Biomimicry and Technology in Education

Transcript

Alison Hardy: 0:06

you're listening to the talking dnt podcast. I'm dr allison hardy, a writer, researcher and advocate of design and technology education. In each episode I share views, news and opinions about dnt. So this week I've got the pleasure of talking to vanessa silveira about her pat paper the pupils attitude towards technology conference um from liverpool in 2023. That she co-wrote with paul maburu, and it's a brilliant action research project and we're going to have a chat about that paper and how it came about. But first, and before I go any further, vanessa, would you like to introduce yourself and say who you are, where you are and what you're currently doing?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 0:53

yes, thank you so much for having me, alison. It's been a pleasure. I'm so excited to talk about this work that we've done together, paul and I. So I'm currently in the United States, in Georgia. I'm a third year PhD student in the Department of Educational Theory and Practice, so most of my work is around learning about different theories and connecting that with practice, and I also work pre-service teachers who are in their third year of graduating, so my work really is going to schools, supervising these teachers, spending time with them here in the department and really trying to find ways to create lesson plans that are helping students and personalised in that way to each of their students.

Alison Hardy: 1:43

And the teachers that you're working with. Are they from a're working with? Are they from a particular subject or are they teaching all sorts of different subjects?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 1:50

they teach all subjects for now right, but most of them focus on science and social studies right, okay, okay.

Alison Hardy: 1:57

So. So, although I mean your paper's obviously about design and technology, but actually your experience that you're working now is kind of much broader across education, yeah, and you're enjoying it all.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 2:09

I am, it's, it's been, it's been a learning journey for sure. Uh, you know the just the differences in culture and education from the United States and the UK. Um, it's quite stark in that sense. So it's been quite a learning journey, but I am enjoying it and I have, I think, immersed myself into this culture now and it's been fun for the most part.

Alison Hardy: 2:33

But before then you were working with Paul, teaching at a secondary school and teaching in design and technology. Is that right?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 2:39

Yes, I was, and I wish he was here and we could talk about it together. Paul and I worked with year n. He was here and we could talk about it together. Paul and I worked with year nines in designing technology in the design and technology classroom and it was a secondary school in the UK and so we started talking about this because of my interest with the, with nature and, like you know, creating modules around nature and bringing that into classrooms. Um, and paul was just so interested in that. Um I was. I was heading to a conference in paris and we just started talking with my paper that I was presenting there and he got. He was so interested that he was like, why don't? Was like, why don't you bring that, why don't you bring your your ideas into our classroom and our lesson? And we'll try to, you know, build from there. Um, so that's how it started, really, um, I've always worked.

Alison Hardy: 3:34

Yeah, yeah, sorry, I know, I just think that's really, that's really interesting about how you've got, you've got a class teacher in poor and yourself doing research but also doing some teaching in the school and bringing those two things together in a really in a really practical way, which you, which you've done in this paper. So so you've kind of got a background. You've sort of brought this, this expertise, let's. Let's tell people what the title of the paper is promoting creativity in the secondary design and technology classroom in England. And people can read the abstracts and I'll put a link in the show notes to the paper and it's the first sentence I think really captures it. This study explores the use and implications of biomimicry as a design method in a secondary school in design and technology classroom in england. So yeah, I think that really sort of sums it up and brings together those those nature parts, what I really like as well. So it's obviously quite a lot of conversation between you and Paul in setting the project up. Is that right?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 4:29

yes, like all throughout, I think we there was constant uh conversations, you know, coming back and forth with how students were receiving it and what needed to be changed, or just designing a way to accommodate all our students, because we had students who were also students with disabilities and it was important and crucial for us to create a space that was accommodating for all of our students. I also think it's important for me to mention why this paper is so personal to me and why this work is so personal to me. Why this paper is so personal to me and why this work is so personal to me because I spent so much, like such a big part of my childhood traveling and learning about different cultures and education systems and just looking at environments and people in which people live in makes it so important for me to you know, bring these, bring solutions to all these problems that I've seen throughout, right, um? So, for example, like working in, like I worked in the remote part of the himalayas, um with with schools and teachers there, and the problems there look so different from the from the, from the teacher problems that we see in the UK or the US, right? So I really wanted to bring all of that together, bring those knowledges and understandings into our classrooms so that our students can learn from there and see what's out there.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 5:55

Really, and I always hated being in a classroom since I was, you know, as a child. I still do. I don't like being in closed spaces. I love being outdoors because my grandfather mostly, like he was a bird watcher and he really got that in me. So I bird watch and that's a big part of who I am. So, yeah, I came across biomimicry to Paul, like Paul told me about it like this these were my ideas and you know this is how this was my way of living.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 6:26

But Paul really helped me see that there was something out there that could support my, my way of, you know, thinking and learning and just being um. And he told me about Janine Benyus, who is the person who founded the term biomimicry in 1997. And I was so happy and excited to see that because that really helped me. It gave me like a foundation and a base to everything I was doing. So basically, biomimicry is all about, you know, using nature as a tool to innovate and build from there. It's about mimicking nature and finding solutions to problems and that's what we've been doing with this paper here. We do you want me to talk about?

Alison Hardy: 7:11

yeah, yeah, go on, keep going. Okay, keep going, because it's fascinating. You're more interesting than I am about this. Go on, keep going um, uh so.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 7:21

So paul came up to me and he was like he told me that there was a school in the neighborhood and it was it's a kindergarten school and they needed help.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 7:31

They approached him as a design technology teacher and they said we have a proposal for you and you know, we are just we are trying to change things up in our in, in the, in the backyard, and we want our young kindergarten students to experience nature and connect with nature in some way.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 7:50

So we would like for you and your students to design, design anything that would bring nature close to our students. So that was a design brief and paul brought that to me and just because we were having all these conversations about nature and my work, we thought this was the best time to do something transformational and connected to the national curriculum framework objectives, which talk about moving away from design fixation and moving away from, you know, using biomimicry and user-centered design to create, to generate more creative ideas and a wide stereotypical responses from students. So this was like a brilliant space for us. We had the design brief, we had a client and we knew what we wanted to do. So we started talking about it and we knew what we wanted to do, so we started talking about it and, based on what I had done previously I've always done uh, pre-interventions, interventions and post-interventions- so let's, let's hold, let's hold on there, right?

Alison Hardy: 8:55

because because we're starting to get into the detail of your paper, which I think people will find really interesting.

Alison Hardy: 9:01

So so what I'm really, what I'm really loving, that obviously doesn't come through in the paper partly because you don't have a lot of space in one of these papers when you've got 3 000 words is the way that it's you and your values and what you, what you really believe in about education and and your, your history and your experiences have come in, and then paul and his understanding of the national curriculum and the classrooms, and then the location of where you are that you've got a real brief that makes it user centred that have come together to create this space and I would say that's also come into that space, because the two people at the centre you and Paul and Paul's the co-author on this and Paul's the co-author on this have got that openness to having those conversations, those professional conversations that have got children's learning and development at the heart, but also keeping true to who you are.

Alison Hardy: 10:03

I think that's a really powerful thing about research and I find that really exciting. You know, you know really genuinely, because you know you, you write an academic paper, don't you? And you kind of lose some of your personality in a way, don't you and your and your beliefs? You've kind of got quite a structure, but getting you on the podcast and hearing you talk about it really, really brings it to life and then, so now I'm going to get you to move into this next bit.

Alison Hardy: 10:23

So this thing about action, research and one of the things, one of the reasons I got you to come on the podcast. There was a couple of reasons. One was about the fact you talk about biomimicry, and one of the things was that your research involved children and involved looking at their work, and it was about you trying out some things to make a difference in your classroom. And if you're a teacher that's listening, I think you probably do this quite a lot, but you don't realise you do this. This is a form of research and that's that's what Vanessa and Paul have done. So Paul so you know, paul isn't here Paul, as a classroom teacher, is doing something, drawing on somebody else's expertise and allocation to try something out in the classroom that meets what the curriculum requirements are but is about progressing children and keeping them at the heart of this. So I think that's really exciting. So, vanessa, can you then talk us through this structure? So you talk about pre-intervention, intervention and post-intervention and what you did.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 11:22

So tell us about this and how you designed the study, then what you were going to do yeah, I like that you talk about how teachers can use, you know, see this as a space for teaching, like using teaching as a way of researching as well. Right, because, especially with design technology, I think it is such an like, such an essential component of a broader curriculum, right.

Alison Hardy: 11:45

Yeah.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 11:46

And we need to find ways to bring that into every other subject. That we teach is what I believe, and I can talk more about that later.

Alison Hardy: 11:55

But yeah, there's so much to say we might have to get you back on for a second episode, I think.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 12:03

But, yeah, let's talk about the paper. Yeah, so we had the design brief. Uh, we knew the the school wanted us to create a space to bring their students closer to nature. So paul and I talked about how we're going to start with a pre-intervention intervention and post intervention. So what the pre-intervention looked like was I knew I didn't want to give the students our year nine students too much information. So, you know, I just started off by. I gave them the design brief. I said this is what the case is, this is our clients. I showed them pictures of the school, the email that was sent to us, you know, being really transparent and really showing them what was needed, um, and really giving you know, holding them responsible and having them take charge and seeing themselves as, like you know, um, designers and planners, right. So this was really like a collaborative um phase where we.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 13:06

We talked and discussed about how we were going to do this, um, and I showed them a video about you know things in nature, just like just what's around them. I had, I had a video that displayed all the nature around them, because I feel like our students are so disconnected with nature. You know, nowadays it's it's really hard for them to go outside or or connect with nature in in that way. So it was important for me to show them about, show them what's out there, what's around in london. You know what's, what's their hat, what, what habitats look like, what animals are around them. So we did that. We had a discussion after that, so it was mostly a collaborative approach here. We talked about stuff, we talked about the design brief, we talked about what they knew about what was around them. And then the next week so this was a 45-minute class, one hour, 45 minutes. So we really spent a lot of time outdoors, which was also challenging.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 14:11

In the beginning, we had to write a formal letter, get permission, because this is not what happens, right? You usually have students sitting in a classroom and going through textbooks and finding ways of doing things that are already told to them, so we wanted to move away from them. We wanted to move away from design fixation and we needed them to go out and explore and see more and think and, you know, question. So we took them out. That was the intervention phase. We had the students go out, we had the students observe. Um, I also had like prompts we had, we designed prompts in terms of in, in the sense we created questions that were open-ended.

Alison Hardy: 14:53

I love that to help them. Yeah, I love that that you didn't just take them out, but actually you gave them some stuff to help them think yeah, when, when they went out because it's gonna be quite intimidating. It's in any situation. If you take them to another sort of environment or even show them some pictures of an environment where they could be designing for it's, you need to structure how they will look at it, so I really like that yeah, so they went out, they had the questionnaire um, so yeah, so what happened when you took them out?

Alison Hardy: 15:20

how did they respond?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 15:22

so we had the questionnaire for them. They took the sheets with them. Um, you know, we asked them to, like, go anywhere they wanted to go. They were supervised and we yeah, we just had them go look at the space, see what's around them, um, and they had so much fun. I remember the day we went out the first time. It's something they don't do a lot and it was just so nice to see.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 15:44

You know, students enjoy being outdoors and really take note of little things that they were seeing, and we saw that with the questions and like their responses. They had so many questions about little things. So we got that to the classroom and we discussed all of those questions and we moved on from there. So they all had specific interests that they wanted to. That they were. You know, they had questions about that they wanted to do something about, for example, like with hedgehogs. They were like, where do hedgehogs go out at night? You know, do they have a safe space to live? Um, what happens with the, with the bee? Like, what happens when the queen bee dies? You know, questions like that, uh, about birds and their nests and is it safe for them from? Are they safe from all predators? Like what can we do, you know to, to keep them safe? What can we do as a school to keep these animals safe around us? Because now they're seeing that we're sharing this space with not just human beings but with all these other living beings around us.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 16:51

So it was very interesting to see how that developed. So they came into classrooms and we had them draw what they were thinking. So they began by drawing what they were thinking from what they saw and what they wanted to create, and and then we moved on. This was all intervention, right, yeah, we, we had them draw and create a prototype. So they moved on from drawing to creating, um, creating what they were designing and planning, uh, in the form, you know, using cardboard and paper and materials that we get them um I'm looking at in the paper because I think it's just fantastic.

Alison Hardy: 17:35

It's so rare to see this in a research paper. You know you've you've got. You know what you've talked about already. You've got in here from four different um pupils. You know their, their thinking before they went out, what they questioned when they went out and then how that kind of comes out in their drawing and their, their modeling. You know their development and I just think it's really interesting to see that this kind of train through, isn't it in some of them. You know maria asking about um wildlife on the ground and then how to find the right space to make homes for animals and then coming up with her designs.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 18:15

That she did, yeah, it's yeah, it's fantastic yeah and what we also did was we had them ask us questions before they went out. So before any intervention was done outdoors we had them ask us questions. So it was really interesting to see how the questions had transitioned from before and after intervention and to see the difference in their thinking and questioning was so interesting to see. You know, I don't want to say I don't want, yeah.

Alison Hardy: 18:43

So what particular things did you see? You're saying you saw a difference. What did you see? What do you think the intervention did? What difference did it make?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 18:50

There was a lot more curiosity, for sure, a lot of um questions around. You know they were trying to solve problems after the intervention, like before the intervention it was, they were. It was mostly awake questions, um, but after intervention it got more specific to an animal or an area or a place and, yeah, the questions got more around. They were more curious in that sense yeah, yeah, I.

Alison Hardy: 19:18

I noticed a similar thing I took when I was teaching um down in northamptonshire. I took some sixth formers up to glasgow for the day. We flew up to glasgow as you would do for the day to look at char Rennie Macintosh stuff and before we went they knew very, very little about the designer. And we went up and we went to the art school and we went to a church that he designed and we went to a tea room. We went to a number of different places and by the end of the day one of the students said so why? Why, when he does light fittings, are they, you know, either four things grouped together or nine? And I said I thought I never even thought about this and it's the same sort of thing, isn't it?

Alison Hardy: 20:03

When we first went, it was like charles renny mcintosh seeing a bit of his stuff. And now the student was noticing patterns, yeah, in in his designs and it's the same, that sort of taking them into a new space. Yeah, um, with some structure, yeah, yeah, so, yeah, absolutely fascinating. So so they did that, they did the models. What else did you notice as a result of the intervention?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 20:27

there was uh with them. It kept changing. It was, it was evolving all the time. Their planning, their thinking, you know, even the drawings were evolving all the time. So when we saw the final products, when we first saw the drawings and then the final products, there was such a stark difference because they were thinking through so much during that whole process, which was also very interesting to see. Yeah, so we moved on from the drawings to the prototype where they use all the materials and the cardboard and the papers to create what they wanted to. You know, create, see for, to see, to create the model that they had pictured. Right, um, yeah, so that was all in the intervention. We had them question, think, draw, uh, plan, you know, create the model. That was all the intervention phase. And then we moved on to the post intervention phase where they, where they had to create the final product, uh, and that was with using wood and all the tools that was around yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got some fantastic photographs of their work in situ.

Alison Hardy: 21:38

Yeah, you know, out in a garden being used, that really brings, brings it to life, doesn't it it?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 21:44

was yeah go on.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 21:46

it was just so brilliant to see how they used. They used, you know, an image of a leaf, like thinking of a leaf to create a nest, because this child was associating a tree with protection and taking care of this bird, so he created something similar to that and created a leaf that was also a nest right and really thinking about how the bird would be safe inside the sleeve that he was building. So there was a lot of thought and thinking and creativity that you can see through the drawings, you can see through the modelling, you can see through the final prototype.

Alison Hardy: 22:27

Yeah, and the same with the hedgehogs. You can see Thomas's train of thought as he goes through as well, can't you?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 22:34

And also like the butterfly to protect bees and, you know, using the butterfly to create all these little holes to attract bees. So yeah, there was some really interesting work.

Alison Hardy: 22:46

Yeah, yeah, and it's the depth of thinking, isn't it? That it's not just this one layer. I'm creating a container for birds to go in, you know, a bird box, for want of a better phrase but actually there's the thoughts about the design and the values that are coming through. It, aren't you, as you say, about the tree protecting? And they're thinking about protecting and that coming through and that being represented by the leaf. So it's not just, oh, I've, I've done something shaped like a leaf, but it's got that, that depth behind it that they might not have had if you hadn't taken them out into the space yeah, there was a lot of planning, you know, there was insight and purpose, uh, which is why there was like a lot of excitement around that right they had.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 23:32

They took charge because they knew they had to create this for a client. So there was a lot of responsibility in that sense and they really wanted to do, you know, really go all out and really plan and execute what they wanted to do. So it was very rewarding for them for sure, to be doing the whole, the whole process, yeah so if I was a teacher reading your paper, what?

Alison Hardy: 23:57

what do you think your research suggests that I could do differently in my classrooms?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 24:04

that is a heavy question because it is so challenging. Uh, you know the work I'm trying to do and the way schools are placed right now and the classrooms are. You know the work I'm trying to do and the way schools are placed right now and classrooms are. You know the way classrooms work right now. It's just so challenging for me as a researcher who's interested in bringing biomimicry into classrooms. It's very challenging for me right now because, even doing the study in the school, you know, getting permission from the parents, from the head, you know the head teacher and just making this happen was a lot, yeah. So I see how it could be challenging for teachers, right, who are still getting to know about this, getting to know about biomimicry and how it can be used in classrooms.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 24:45

But I see it as a way. You know, you can start off by using virtual ways of learning about biomimicry. You know, bringing videos about how nature has inspired so much that we see today, right, like the bullet trains, for example, or shark skin to protect hospitals, like, yeah, just like there's so many bio-inspired products that we have around us today, and I truly, I really think it's you know, it's skills that students take as they move on with their lives right in their work, in their, in their life. So I feel like bringing design and technology and the values and principles into teaching every subject is is so important and I don't know why we don't do that as much. So what I do here with my teachers is I'm trying to create modules to support them so, for example, when they're teaching science, they could bring in you know, they could bring in design and thinking into that, into the science lesson. So, for example, if you're teaching, if they want to talk about your mind's gone blank, hasn't it?

Alison Hardy: 25:58

because I was thinking the other way. I was thinking about you know, as you say, taking children out of the classroom is quite an organizational challenge amongst the day-to-day, but I think there's something very powerful about that. But the big thing is it's about making connections as well, isn't it? It's about making connections with the outside world, and I've had sue taplin on the podcast talking about this sort of stuff as well for her phd um. But I was thinking, actually, as a dnt teacher, I could, I could team up with one of the science teachers who might be as a specialist in biology and bring them into my classroom and talk about a particular aspect of biology and then use that as a launch pad to design.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 26:44

Does that make sense?

Alison Hardy: 26:45

so it's not about, then it's actually bringing the expertise of the school into into the dnt lesson too. So then that that that science teacher becomes a resource, but in a completely different way than they're, than they're used to, um. So I think for me there's that, and I'm just thinking as well as a design and technology teacher. I think I think one of the central things that's come through from the research that you and paul did is that conversation, yeah, the research that you and Paul did. Is that conversation, yeah, the conversation that you and Paul had and I was really intrigued about as you went through the 10 lessons. You had a plan, obviously, but did you change things as you went along because you thought, oh, that's not worked so well, or that's worked really well, or we need to add this in or take that out? Did you modify it as you went along?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 27:42

We did. We had to because of our students needs, um, like I said, we had students who were, you know, students with disabilities and there was certain things we we couldn't do and, like some tools we couldn't use. Um, so, in that sense, there was things we had to change, also, like the questions, I think, the way we had to frame the questions. We had to change them every. We changed them a lot to also not give in too much information and not, you know, force uh, how do I put this not to really allow them to think for themselves, right? So the questions had to be framed in a way that would allow that, allow for that to happen. Um, so, yeah, I think the changes were mostly done with the questions, um, because the rest of it was just like them working, you know it was, it was very student-centered, so it was them thinking, them, planning them, using, you know, insights and purpose to to create their plans. So, yeah, it was all them in the end.

Alison Hardy: 28:35

Yeah I think also that whole thing about questions it's it's really underrated as something that, as a teacher, you need to practice and talk through, because I think asking questions, particularly I'm sure it's another subject, but they're just not as important as design and technology.

Alison Hardy: 28:53

But you know, in design and technology, when children are designing or you're trying to give them a framework to think about something, I think, as you say, you can like you can end up asking questions that are too open, that take them too big. Yeah, and as a classroom teacher, you've got to manage all of these children doing different things. You can't you can't make it too big, but you can't make it too big, but also you can't make it too close that they all end up with the same design. And so there's a real balance between those questions. And those questions are really provocative as well. They provoke responses, provoke creative thinking. I did some research when I was teaching about questions, you know, because I was just fascinated by how teachers, in their conversation, design and technology ask questions in such a way that develops children's creativity.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 29:45

And I think creativity. You know, a lot of people think creativity is all about art and doing it well and coming up with the most brilliant ideas and finding solutions. But I think a lot of creativity is about confidence and giving students that confidence to think that, oh, I can do this, I can think about this and I can play with what this is about, and I think a lot of creativity comes from there. Yeah, so I think, questions making sure you're not assuming too much, you're not assuming that students know this. Right, you're keeping it open-ended and not close-ended. You're allowing for space for them to really think and and question through those questions, right?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 30:28

so yeah, yeah that was very important for us when when designing these the question and the prompts for them yeah, no, so I think.

Alison Hardy: 30:35

I think there's actually. There's actually so much more from your study than you were able to put in the paper. You're limited to 3 000 words, but I think there's. I think there's so much more from your study than you were able to put in the paper. You're limited to 3000 words, but I think there's so much more from this in terms of the questions, the taking the classroom outside, the user-centered, the conversation between you and Paul, the reflective conversations in modifying things, all the reflective conversations in modifying things. And then I would say, when you were talking, just then, the word that came to me was trust, that you trusted the children. You and Paul trusted each other and you trusted the children to take what you were teaching them and use it in a design. And then I think that probably would make their solutions even richer and more value-laden in terms of what, what they believed and you know what you believe about, about design and about nature.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 31:33

I think a big part about biomimicry is about, you know, the way you do biomimicry in a classroom is by really doing, and that's how you build trust to make it happen. So, really coming down to the level, to their levels, right, and you know, just just having it so student-centered that you're not forcing information on them, you're allowing them to think through what we're, what we're doing here, right, like what this, what this lesson is about. So it's really building trust and trust in that sense and, um, approaching it in a way that is by doing and not giving right. Uh, and I also think, yeah, biomimicry is just, it has so much to look into, especially in terms of, like you know, mental health and climate change and there's so many, so many ways we can look at biomimicry to like tackle any all of that.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 32:24

Uh, because you know, we can look at nature as a way, as a way of healing and using that as a practice to heal, uh, for students. And I also think of ai. You know, and I think of biomimicry as a critique to ai and really how we're looking at the de-evolution of, you know, our reliance as people on technology and really us evolving as human beings and our senses and thinking and problem solving skills to problem solve and not completely relying on technology to do that. Because we are seeing a lot of you, you know, problems with ai in classrooms and just every everywhere, you know.

Alison Hardy: 33:05

So oh, that's, that's really interesting. I am, yeah, I, I can. When I did my research, one of the things that came out um was one of the kind of groups of what people say the value of design and technology is around um, technological determinism, which, um, I, it's not something I'm particularly confident in talking about, but I kind of felt the sort of stuff that I'd read from steve karl and mark de vries um around the philosophy of technology, um, and I've not read karl mitchum's work, but I know that mark's de vries's work um sort of builds on that and this idea of technology as volition, um and technological determinism. Is technology shaping us or are we shaping technology? In that relationship, that that symbiotic relationship? Now there's a, there's a, uh, a biology word, isn't it? You know, because symbiosis is around the way different creatures live, live with, live on and live to the detriment, live to the advantage of each other, um, but yeah, does.

Alison Hardy: 34:10

Is that that symbiotic relationship we have with technology and with ai? Is that, is that good, bad? Are we living off each other? Are we shaping it or is it shaping us? I think that's really interesting about thinking about all of our senses, which you know we bring them all together as humans, don't we? Um and taking children out. There's been a real drive, hasn't there, about taking children into outdoor spaces and outdoor education. We do a big thing at my university in education around forest schools and, um, as I said, I mentioned sue taplin and such.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 34:44

So, yeah, yeah, it's interesting how it might well be a backlash uh, certainly, I mean, it's so new technology like ai is so new to us and you know we. There's more research being done and to see, to see really what the consequences are on education, right. But I see biomimicry as a critique to that because of my personal experiences and how my life is shaped around the environment and using the environments and nature as an inspiration instead of technology. And that's what I try to bring into my classrooms, because when I think of design fixation and I think about technology, I think that's where it comes from, right mostly. But when students look at nature and think of, oh, I share, I share. You know this planet with billions of species and how do I look at them as inspirations?

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 35:38

because, they're, they're all. They're going through all these processes and, you know, really looking at local knowledges and spaces and protecting this, the place, right, they're using local uh, local knowledge and resources. And how can we do that? How can we use our local knowledge and spaces and preserve those spaces for our future generations? So, yeah, with Biomimicry, I think it's all about, you know, looking at all of this as a design brief, looking at nature and how nature does it as a design brief, and thinking about how we could do it right, using that as inspiration and thinking about how we could do anything. Really, like we have a problem and the solutions are right, like the answers are all around us is what I think.

Alison Hardy: 36:28

Um, in the form of nature, yeah, yeah, but I think what you've done in this study in in this classroom, is you've taken the children into that space with some very structured, carefully thought through questions and prompts and lessons and learning to get them to that point.

Alison Hardy: 36:47

It kind of doesn't just happen, you're, you're not able to talk so articulately about it, um, without having experience and had some different ways of that, have you been given to think about it, and I think what you've done in those 10 lessons has really embodied your about it and I think what you've done in those 10 lessons has really embodied your values and your beliefs and what you've just spoken about. So I'd really encourage people, um, to read your paper and and I'm really fascinated as well about the paper from Paris and I'm going to ask if you can send me the link to that so I can put that in the show notes so people can read that one as well. Yeah, that's all really exciting. But thanks ever so much, vanessa, for coming on to the podcast. That's been amazing and I'm going to get you back to come and talk about your study sort of later on and maybe about how you work with teachers and getting them to reflect on their practice. That would be fab.

Venessa Lourdes Silveira: 37:34

Yes, thank you, alison.

Alison Hardy: 37:35

Thank you so much for doing this and creating a space you know for creating a space, you know, for teachers and researchers like me to come up here and share our work. I think it's so important. The work you're doing is so important, so thank you, thank you, thank you. But it's just such a pleasure to talk to lovely people as well. I like to do that.

Alison Hardy: 37:51

I'm Dr Alison Hardy and you've been listening to the Talking D&T podcast. If you enjoyed the podcast, then do subscribe, on whatever platform you use, and do consider leaving a review, as it does help others find the podcast. I do the podcast because I want to support the D&T community in developing their practice, so please do share the podcast with your D&T community. If you want to respond to something I've talked about or have an idea for a future episode, then either leave me a voice memo via speakpipe or drop me an email. You can find details about me, the podcast and how to connect with me on my website, dralisonhardycom. Also, if you want to support the podcast financially, you can become a patron. Links to SpeakPipe, patreon and my website are in the show notes. Thanks for listening.