How A Senior Leader Put D&T At The Heart Of Three SEMH Schools

What happens when a senior leader who grew up in the workshop helps design three SEMH schools from the ground up? In this episoode, I sit down with Paul Quinn to unpack a bold, practical vision for Design and Technology that prioritises access, safety and pride in making. Instead of chasing every shiny gadget, Paul explains why reliable hand tools and a hard-working laser cutter deliver outsized gains for learners who need quick wins, clear routines and visible success they can take home.

We talk about Paul’s journey from mainstream D&T to leadership, exploring how accountability pressures squeezed creative subjects and why specialist provision offered a chance to redefine success. He shares the realities of equipping new workshops, including what paid off, what didn’t, and how the team kept the focus on learning rather than kit. Expect straight talking on 3D printers, the value of repetitive processes for regulation, and why textiles—introduced with careful safety planning—unlocked confidence for many students.

Throughout, we return to the simple truths that make D&T transformative in SEMH settings: short, well-structured lessons; culturally relevant projects; heavy scaffolding with teacher prep; and outcomes that look and feel good. When students are welcomed into spaces they were once excluded from, behaviour shifts, confidence grows and qualifications follow. This is practical pedagogy you can apply tomorrow—design for success, choose tools that fit your learners, and keep the relationship at the centre.

Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of D&T, inclusion and real-world making, and share this episode with a colleague who’s rethinking their workshop. Leave a review to help others find the show, and tell us: what tool would you buy, and what would you skip?

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Scene: DT And SEMH
• 0:50 Paul’s Path From DT To Leadership
• 5:20 Why Build Three SEMH Schools
• 8:35 Kitting Out Workshops: What Worked
• 13:30 Tools That Matter Vs Shiny Gadgets
• 16:40 Textiles, Risk, And Relevance
• 20:05 Short Lessons And Real Engagement
• 23:20 Redefining Success And Access
• 26:00 Practical Strategies That Stick

Transcript

Alison Hardy: 0:06

You're listening to the Talking D&T Podcast. I'm Dr. Alison Hardy, a writer, researcher and advocate of design and technology education. In each episode I share views, news and opinions about D&T. This is another evening recording of the podcast, and this evening I've got the pleasure of talking to somebody about D&T provision in a specialist, a special school, an SEMH school. This is a third person from the same group of schools to be talking to. So this is part of the series that I'm doing about SEND in D&T in terms of supporting different pupils with different needs in design and technology in a variety of different settings. So tonight I'm with Paul Quinn. So, Paul, would you like to introduce yourself, say who you are, where you are, and what you do?

Paul Quinn: 0:57

Okay, so you've got the Paul Quinn bit right. I'm the vice principal of one of the three SEMH provisions in Leeds that are run by Springwell Academy Leeds. We're part of the Wellspring Trust, which is a bigger trust. Um I've been doing that about 10 years before that. Um I was uh since 1994, I've been a D&T teacher, and then as was in those days, art teacher, art teacher, PE teacher, everything and pencil sharpener. Yeah, so I've been yeah, I've been in this 32 years now.

Alison Hardy: 1:37

Right, okay. So you're unusual that a senior leader has a design and technology background, actually. That is the general feeling. That is a general feeling. I think quite a lot of senior leaders are PE teachers, but I think that's because their knees go.

Paul Quinn: 1:53

Yeah, possibly. And um, yeah, so I think it's not that like intellectually challenging, so it's best for them.

Alison Hardy: 1:59

You could say that. You could say that.

Paul Quinn: 2:01

I would add as a PE teacher, he'll he'll be fine with it.

Alison Hardy: 2:05

Right, okay.

unknown: 2:06

Okay.

Alison Hardy: 2:08

Yeah, we did used to have when I worked in one of my schools, one of the the head of PE used to walk through my workshop and pass some comment, which is uh it's too early in the evening to be saying the sorts of things he would say to me about design and technology. But anyway, they're a bit bit close to close to the edge. I might save that for the subscription only episode. So only a few people here. So so have you always worked in special schools or were you in mainstream previously?

Paul Quinn: 2:34

Uh no, so 1994. I I did I started my degree in 89, finished in 93, did my last teaching practice in a really, really posh grammar school, and I decided teaching wasn't for me. Um on the basis of that, you know, I was 20 odd, so we a bit hot headed. So I went to work as a joiner for a bit and a bit of painting and decorating. Then my father, who was uh head of us of one of the two schools in Widness where I'm from, was a bit fed up with me because he he kind of supported me through all this. And then he so he had a word with the head of the other school, which happened to be my own school, and their head rung up and said, We've got a D&T cover job, do you want to do it? And it just worked out that all of the lads I were working with on the journey were all off Al Vida Al Vida Sen-esque to uh Germany to work in minus 16. So I thought, alright, we'll have a bit of this. Yes, in the worms. Got back into the classroom of a of a normal comp, Catholic Catholic comp, normal comp and just thought, yeah, I will mess up and just loved it, and I've been pretty much every day since then. Um so then I moved to Leeds uh as a not an NQT, I was a probationer in those days.

Alison Hardy: 3:56

Yeah, that's the language, yeah.

Paul Quinn: 3:58

Yeah, um as a D&T teacher, and then three years later became head of the department, then subsequently head of faculty. We built up a lovely big from two subjects to nine subjects uh qualifications over the twenty years I was there. Uh and now due to things that's happened, that's kind of regressed a little bit. Not due to the the commitment of anything, it's more the baccalaureate things and all the uh um that five packet ideas that of of um kind of crippled creative subjects. So I did that and then part of that was part of that was what made me fed up. I was by this point I was still kind of running the faculty, but I was on SLT and I had to go into these meetings with the kids with a to kind of discourage them from doing two D&Ts. We were being quite ethical at the time in that we weren't saying you can only do one because we had quite a thriving and it was good exams. We had good you know, as a department we had good exam results, but only one would count. Yeah. So my job as as a member of SLT was conflicting with my job as uh as a as a D&T, you know, practitioner that you do as much D&T as you can because it's the best subject going kids. Um and that can that hurt me, but a f I could a few other things, and um a a good friend of mine who is the it seems to be who's the CAO of CEO of the um Academy I work for just went, Do you want to come and set these schools up? I went, What? And he went, We've set we've got a load Leeds City Council have got a load of money, they promised us they're backing us, it's a real big thing. Do you want to come and get involved? And it was too, you know, too exciting and interesting to um to pass up. So uh my head was really supportive and let me resign with four weeks' notice. Wow. You know, they would they were back, and he's a great boy, best head I've ever worked for.

Alison Hardy: 6:07

And the one I work for now as well, obviously. He's as he's as good as the one you currently work for, but in a different way.

Paul Quinn: 6:14

That's what I meant to say. And then so we started that, and that's where it was on about what just in before briefly said, is that I had that blank ticket because you know, the as we were setting her up, it was a very interesting whole thing was a really weird and interesting thing setting schools up from scratch. Which please come and have a look at them, they're fantastic.

Alison Hardy: 6:35

Oh, we'll do, yeah.

Paul Quinn: 6:36

And D&T and creative arts is is really prevalent, which makes me happy. Music particularly as well.

Alison Hardy: 6:44

Um it's all the subjects that involve the body, isn't it?

Paul Quinn: 6:47

Yeah. I mean, you know, as as you learn this subject, uh sorry, this specialism, you see a lot of the stuff about the neuroscience behind rhythm and music and things like that that calm kids, and it's it's amazing, particularly music, but also you know, D&T science. I'm a big advocate of science for SEMH as well.

Alison Hardy: 7:07

Right, okay. Yeah, so anything that's kind of fun. No, no, sorry, you were talking about setting you have the golden ticket to set these schools up. So there's three so there's three schools three schools you were setting up, or one?

Paul Quinn: 7:18

Yeah, three. Said, what do we need? And I went, right, we need this. Some of the bits I got right, some of the bits I got wrong, or my hands up. But we were also within that was really interesting because we were all doing you know, how many chairs, how many cupboards, and you forget, you will forget something when you're doing it, and we we forgot cupboards. Yeah. Yeah.

Alison Hardy: 7:40

It's yeah, it's a bit like when you're um putting together your content insurance, they say go around your whole house and write absolutely everything down, because if anything happens to your house, you will have forgotten something that was absolutely obvious. So, yeah. So you set up you're setting up space these three schools that were all three at SEMH, is that right?

Paul Quinn: 7:59

Yeah, yeah, all three. Um three sites, um, about 120 kids each, 340 places, and you know, we're full, like uh as everywhere is. It's a it's a growth industry. Well, sadly and not sadly, it's sad that there's more kids that need us, but it's you know, it's also good that more people are recognising and putting the money in to support and meet meet the kids' needs that we we want to meet. And so they just went right to spec, here's your budget. Whee! Um yeah, some I mean, yeah. The the most successful thing I should have bought was the cheaper stuff. The hand tools, that's what the kids like, which the kids use all day. You know, we've got we've gone through three sets of them since we set up ten years ago. Uh laser cutter that gets used a load. That was like that was the one when I put the budget in, they're looking at me and you're and they're going, you want three of them? Because this was ten years ago, so it was 40 grand each. So you know, me saying, Yeah, we need 120 grand for these. But um, it's worth you know, that was quite happy. I bought a really good circular saw because I'm proper old school, mate. Really good. You need it, you need it site just because it's you know, give prepping and stuff like that. It's it's a life, what it's a you know, time saver that's it is, yeah.

Alison Hardy: 9:23

It's it's a it's an upfront investment that saves to saves money in the long run.

Paul Quinn: 9:27

Yeah. But yeah, some of the things they went, are you sure about this? And going, Yeah. So we got a laser cutter. I'd at that time I'd just finished teaching and I was still working when I'd finished in in mainstream, I was doing quite a lot of A-level, so I was teaching quite a lot of packaging. So one of the things that we did invest in that hasn't really um panned out as much is the card, you know, the old card cutters, um, which I think's a lovely piece of kit and there's so much, but um they just they're just too fiddly, and for our kids, um that fine motor skill wasn't there. We we could we don't really have a suite, so they couldn't really do designing much of their own. We use it for blanks now and again and a bit of vinyl work, that's what pulls them in, you know. Yeah, the um the that but yeah, I think that might have been I could have spent that money on something else, but the laser cutters like glowing red all day, as they are in all schools. Yes. I resisted 3D printing because I thought it was nonsense, and I'm still glad.

Alison Hardy: 10:30

Yeah, I I'm not completely sold on whether you know whether that's that's that that's essential.

Paul Quinn: 10:36

Like I say, old school. What did he actually make?

Alison Hardy: 10:40

Yeah, I'm not I'm not gonna quite that old school, although I did graduate a year before you actually, but um yeah, it's so what about the what about the textile side?

Paul Quinn: 10:50

Um to be honest, that I'd I'd taught it one of when I was teaching and running my department and faculty, one of the big pushes I'd done, which funnily enough is something that's come full circle now, is that you I said you have a class for a year and you learn all the skills, so we all learn um textiles, me less successfully than the others. We all learn food. I was alright with that one, and then you know the others had to learn things, and we all did it, and it and it worked. And I I just liked having, and I think it worked from her behaviour and the real relational practice that you get from having one teacher like everyone else's, you know. I mean, if you if you're a really good talented teacher, you can pick up and learn a class in six weeks, and then they're gone, and then you have the next group, and you know, that's it's a model that we we use now in SEMH where it's a primary model, even in the secondary school, where they have one teacher for most of the subjects, but then as they get into the upper school, they do some obviously specialist maths and English, and then specialist CT food and things like that. It's for Nicola who you spoke to the other week, she's brought in the textiles. I didn't I didn't know enough about or also, it was no it wasn't my job. I'm not saying it was it was somebody else's job, um, but she's the one who said we want to do textiles, and I was like, I'm uh one of the part of my jobs as as running the school is the risk assessment and management of everything, and needles terrified me.

Alison Hardy: 12:24

Same machines, same machines and putting your foot on it and running over hands and all sorts of things, yeah.

Paul Quinn: 12:31

We have sometimes if things go wrong, but the um when it worked, it's been really successful, there's been a lot of application to it, and uh I think the the the kind of repetitive once I get it, and I know then a lot of a lot of kids in in mainstream I can do this now, I'm a bit bored, I've got to do all these scenes. A lot of our kids find success and then carry on with those success. So it was really, really popular and really helped them. So yeah, but it wasn't it's not that's not really my thought here. So but Nicola's done a great job of it, done some lovely stuff.

Alison Hardy: 13:08

So how are you how are you seeing design and technology in your in your schools then? Why are you seeing it as such a key part of the curriculum?

Paul Quinn: 13:16

Um well again, old school, it's it's the there's two things. What what I wanted I always said in my faculty was one of the things is every kid every six weeks take summer home that the mum and dad can say that's brilliant, whether it is or isn't, and that connection to home because stuff doesn't go, you know, the the books go home not so much, they stay in a bag and that, but taking and we made this for mum, you know, everyone's I've you know, I've now sadly my mum died, but I've still got the um the ash the ashtray in brass that I made a replenished ashtray in the in the good old days of um you know a a ballpoint hand hammering doing all that and you know she kept that and that that was a that was a big thing for me in in the subject and it's a subject that they can succeed in. And also one of the the big drivers, particularly for D&T and science, is again in my old faculty, it was oh well it wasn't in my faculty, but when the others worked, you know, you worked in other schools and and taught trauma. Oh, this is too you're too dangerous for this subject. Yeah. And that just I despised that attitude. So that's it. You know, it's a connection to home. It's it's also, you know, there's all the other kind of slightly clicheed things that you need to learn these stuff for life. That's why I don't like um 3D printing, by the way.

Alison Hardy: 14:40

I just think it's an expense that actually what what are the children learning from it. That's my that's my thing about it.

Paul Quinn: 14:46

Yeah, it was a I thought it was a gadget. I'm not as of or fair as I was, so I don't know whether it gets used much now in projects.

Alison Hardy: 14:56

Yeah, I I I don't hear about them so much actually. I mean that might just be I can hear people kind of coming and emailing me now and going, we've got one, we've got three, we've got however many minute, you know, but uh I I do sort of wonder about the educational value of them, if I'm honest, for design whether they're a necessity for teaching good D&T.

Paul Quinn: 15:14

Well it it's that uh I think I I you've seen probably quite something you might use in A-level, and it was that thing for my sins, one of the other things I taught was um computer science. Because obviously everyone involved in D&T can teach computer science, whether whether you can or you can't, because it's the same thing. Yeah, of course it's um that big and it it's kind of an issue I have with all of all the D&T subjects in a way, is that that top level bit, that creativity, is is is like gold dust. It's nice to be able to teach everyone to think for themselves and solve problems, but the the levels at which you'd use that were you know, they're the people that earn that's why you know Eve Saint Laurent earns millions and millions of pounds because it's gold dust, and there's very few people that have that. So it it was I never thought you'd get everyone doing something different that would, you know, merit its use. So if you're not doing that, what you're doing is making artisans for you know, people that which yeah, and and and it's where they're what it set out to do.

Alison Hardy: 16:20

Yeah, and if is it giving their is it actually developing their creativity? Do you do you need a uh a big gadget uh to do that? You know, I know I know that design and technology is about the realisation of their ideas, but you say this this making this physical thing um but is a representation of what they've had in their heads, and that's something really important. I think for some children it's really significant that you say to take that home and and have that um that representation of this thing that they then take home and and somebody comments with pride about it. Um but whether we need to have lots and lots of high-level gadgets and almost price ourselves out of the curriculum.

Paul Quinn: 17:00

I I do have have some reservations about yeah, I mean um uh for us it's not it's it's it's proper handcraft tools that we use, you know, and it's uh they don't really the levels of computer literacy are quite weak, so we don't really have the opportunity for them to you know learn tech soft and things like that. It really wouldn't it wouldn't fit in the amount of time that would take would negate the rest of your you know the building blocks that we're working with are slightly different and more crucial, you know, your literacy, your numeracy, and your own managing their own emotions and um and needs. Yeah, what with her for in reality.

Alison Hardy: 17:48

So yeah, yeah, Eilish said that she had to adjust her way of thinking about what success looked like and what progress looked like having come from a school where it was all about exam results, and she said, and this is you know, the success for the individual child is is quite is quite different. And she also talked about the length of the lessons, you know, because they're coming to a specialist school from their main classroom, the time to go and get them, bring them over, you know, and and they might all be at different stages of what they're doing and doing.

Paul Quinn: 18:17

I mean that that was I was part that was like I had a bit of a tension in that. In the I would like to say it was part center of the schools, we were all discussions about um lessons, and we went for with the start off at 35 minutes each, some are 40 now, and they're longer at different and shorter at different parts of the day as our night become you know emotionally or intellectually drained tired, you know. So you get you know, one and two are much better. I suppose it's the same for all kids really, but I think the the behaviours manifest themselves more negatively with our kids when they get tired and frustrated than they do with uh the kids in mainstream. But you know, we went for 35 minutes and and the aim of that is twenty to twenty-five minutes engagement and you know, Nick, I say I don't this year I'm not teaching any D&T. Last year that I taught the uh BTEC groups. Right. And but Nicholas getting a full lesson of of engagement out of them, and I think there's a couple of subjects, not many, that could have gone a bit longer, but you know, with the you know, we've got to fit into a timetable with everyone else. And they certainly wouldn't they wouldn't cope with double lessons. No so rather keep them wanting more.

Alison Hardy: 19:38

Yes. Well that's what you want is you want people to to leave in a good place rather than I just want to get out of I want to get out of here, don't you? So yeah. So what would you say have been your successes then, Paul? What would you look back at over the time now? You've been, you know, since you kitted out these three schools, um, you know, kind of really made it clear that design and technology was uh of of importance.

Paul Quinn: 20:02

So nine yeah, I think I've had one kid that have had to say no, you can't do D&T, or we'll do something, we'll do it in a different way. Which, you know, the you know, for the levels of need and the the um you know the behaviours that sometimes the um show that they uh that's that's achievement I'm really really proud of. You know, we're overcoming the barriers to their learning and and to their access accessibility, you know. So that's that's what I'm really proud of. It's a really popular subject. Um, you know, again it it that's taken a bit of time because kids again, along with Flora who's who set up the uh science, it's a it's a subject that a lot of our kids come in with that negative thought about because it's you're not allowed in here because you're too naughty. Yeah, you can't be trusted. But that was you know, and that took a bit for them to break that down. The fact we've we've but that's working so well now in a lot of the time that's because of Nicola, in that that's now filtered down the the start D&T in excuse me, uh in year two. If the s the the youngest kids start it, and Nicola goes or and well not Nicola Agelish and the other uh guys, they all go in to the classes and do it in there because that's part of this model of uh relational practice that our little kids can't cope with coming out into the rest of the school. So they stay in that pod. So you know projects that have been developed to go into the class and work, and then as they get older and move through the school and the confidence and the needs are being better met, they can go out and go into the specialist subjects. And we're getting again the least proud, I think, of all the things I'm proud of. But we are getting exam results now. But I mean that doesn't that doesn't matter to me.

Alison Hardy: 21:56

No, no, but externally it does, doesn't it? So and and it's progress, isn't it? Because some of those children, if they stayed in main screen, wouldn't have achieved any external recognition.

Speaker 2: 22:06

No, no, no.

Alison Hardy: 22:07

So yeah, yeah. So what would you what would you say are the things that work particularly well in in design and technology in your your three schools? What's if I've got any other teachers that are listening who, you know, because they might be the only D&T teacher, um, you know, with you having three schools as some at least some cross-fertilisation potential and people with that special to talk to. Any anything that you'd suggest that people think about or what's working?

Paul Quinn: 22:40

Um give a uh which which we used to do in in in mainstream, give a nod to creativity for a lot of them. They get to put the Batman badge on what they've made or the na or they're cutting out the name or something like that. But um short projects, successability. Give them, you know, don't be expecting them to cut out the whole thing. You scaffold, scaffold, scaffold, but scaffolding in a in a practical way where you finish cutting that bit out, and then a lot of the times I'll go back and um sort things out so things fit that little better so they get in success. Because y you know, obviously with within within the setting, success reads success. So yeah, short projects used use simple tools, things that they recognise um try and keep it um culturally re culturally re relevant, which is something I struggle with now. So things that they're into, um you know, things to do with phones, things to do with as they're a little bit older than music, but much much what what we do with with all with all kids, you know.

Alison Hardy: 23:54

Yeah, yeah.

Paul Quinn: 23:55

Relate to them on the level that they want to be related to with understand where they're coming from. A lot of of prepping, a lot of um kids doing the last bit, making most of it so it looks good. Because also sadly a lot they're quite used to being seeing that whatever it is they've done isn't as good as other people's or as good as the waggle or whatever you want to say. And so making making things that they can do that, and sometimes when they can't, um helping them a lot with it. Yeah, yeah, but being yeah, thinking that through about what that it's more about a journey of success rather than uh you can cut a mitre joint now.

Alison Hardy: 24:36

Yes, yeah, it's that individual.

unknown: 24:40

No.

Alison Hardy: 24:42

No, nobody nobody cuts them. I'd imagine if you went back to being a chippy or a joiner, you were they're not cut, they're machine cut, um, and so on. But yeah, look, thanks for that, Paul. That it's just useful to get a senior leader's viewpoint of this. Um and you know, talking to your team have been has been really good as well to get that to get that viewpoint. So, you know, thank you, thank you for your time. Um and I would love to come and visit.

Paul Quinn: 25:11

Please do. Well, like we've got I've got it, you've got my email, so please, yeah, come across, have a look, and bring your apron.

Alison Hardy: 25:20

I used to wear a fisherman's smock, actually, that was my thing.

Paul Quinn: 25:23

Oh man. Barman's apron for me.

Alison Hardy: 25:27

No, fisherman's smock, because I wouldn't wear a white coat because I didn't want to look like a scientific science teacher.

Paul Quinn: 25:33

Um I set fire to my um white coat on teaching practice. Not as a not as an act of rebellion, doing doing a brazing demonstration and I m moved around and the red hot bit caught me cuff while I'm like quite nervous in my second year uh TP and set fire to me um my sleeve whilst trying to do a braising demonstration.

Alison Hardy: 25:56

I did a braising demonstration in my first teaching practice when I was 18 and learnt how to braze the night before.

Speaker 2: 26:04

Yeah.

Alison Hardy: 26:05

So yeah, yeah. Look, thanks ever so much, Paul. Uh it must be time to go and open a bottle of wine and have a glass of wine and enjoy your evening.

Paul Quinn: 26:12

Okay, it'd love to speak to you, Allison.

Alison Hardy: 26:14

Thanks ever so much.

Paul Quinn: 26:15

Okay, bye-bye.

Alison Hardy: 26:18

I'm Dr. Alison Hardy, and you've been listening to the Talking D&T Podcast. If you enjoyed the podcast, then do subscribe on whatever platform you use and do consider leaving a review as it does help others find the podcast. I do the podcast because I want to support the D&T community in developing their practice, so please do share the podcast with your D&T community. If you want to respond to something I've talked about or have an idea for a future episode, then either leave me a voice memo via Speakpipe or drop me an email. You can find details about me, the podcast, and how to connect with me on my website, dralisonhardy.com. Also, if you want to support the podcast financially, you can become a patron. Links to Speakpipe, Patreon, and my website are in the show notes. Thanks for listening.