What Changes When We Design D&T For Access

The best support in Design and Technology rarely looks dramatic. It looks like a calm voice re-reading instructions, a bigger print-out placed quietly on a bench, a checklist that turns panic into progress, and a student realising they can finish what they started. I’m joined by Sarah, a Learning Support Assistant working closely with a D&T department, to explain what inclusion actually requires when lessons move between food tech, textiles, workshop making, and CAD.

We talk about why being attached to a department (rather than trailing a single pupil all day) builds confidence, consistency, and trust. Sarah breaks down key SEND and EHCP basics in plain language, then shares practical classroom strategies: sensory support such as ear defenders, problem-solving around smell in food rooms, and targeted scaffolding that still protects independence. We explore adaptive equipment for coordination and mobility needs, and how pupils can achieve the same outcomes through different routes, including smart alternatives during GCSE and NEA practical work.

A big takeaway is processing time. We unpack ways to reduce cognitive overload in demonstrations, use step-by-step photos and tangible models, and structure tasks so pupils can start, sustain effort, and feel the satisfaction of completion. Sarah also shares a research-informed task planner approach (influenced by the Education Endowment Foundation) that helps with time management, keywords, and motivation.

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Sarah Matters

Alison Hardy 0:06

You're listening to the Talking DT Podcast. I'm Dr. Alison Hardy, a writer, researcher, and advocate of design and technology education. In each episode, I share views, news, and opinions about DT. Thinking back now to the conversation, I just think her drive and her motivation to support the young people she works with is inspirational. So I hope you enjoy listening to this as much as I enjoyed having the conversation with Sarah. And she's really humble, and I think that is a great recognition of how people like Sarah who support design and technology lessons are in real life. She sees herself as part of the team, recognises the value of everybody around. I really, really, as I said, enjoyed this conversation. Sara. And she's really humble, and I think that is a great recognition of how people like Sarah, who support design and technology lessons, are in real life. She sees herself as part of the team, recognises the value of everybody around. And I really, really, as I said, enjoyed this conversation.

Sarah’s Path Into School Support

Sarah Paley 1:28

We were working in bubbles, which wasn't sort of normal, but it became normal for me. And then it was very strange when we went back to um prior to bubbles, it was a bit of an odd situation, but um we rumbled on through like everybody, um, and we learned a lot from it, I think. Um so yeah, that's how I found myself there.

Alison Hardy 1:48

Right.

Sarah Paley 1:48

Um coming from a background of primary education, so it was quite an interesting shift.

Alison Hardy 1:54

Yeah, and how long had you worked in primary?

Sarah Paley 1:57

So I was in a primary education for nine years, um, and then I deviated completely out of the classroom to museum and heritage education, which was really interesting. Um, lots of crossover with skills, but then lots of new skills as well.

Alison Hardy 2:12

Yeah, yeah. So you've had a you've had a varied background to come to this point. Definitely. So within the department, you're attached to design and technology. So what does that mean? Because I think you I think you said when you started at the school, you actually were working with particular pupils and you went around their lessons, and then there was a change to be an attached department. So so how does that differ for you?

Sarah Paley 2:40

Um, well, me and my team have found it really good, actually. Um, initially it felt very strange because traditionally we always followed the specific students around um and supported them in whichever lessons they needed help in. Um, and then Arsenco suggested a bit of a change. Um, thinking about working to our strengths as a team. Um, we were allowed to sort of give a bit of um a choice to say, where would you like to be, what, where would be good for you, where do you feel your strengths are? Um, and then we we were sort of assigned to departments. There is a little bit of flex in there. Um, if support's needed elsewhere and we're not needed in tech, we'll go where we're needed. But what we found is it's been a really effective way to build up our confidence as LSAs because the curriculum content becomes really familiar, uh, you're engaged in it all the time. Um, so you build up really um strong backgrounds and extensive knowledge, and the students then feel more confident to ask you for help. Um staff also are sharing constantly good practice, they're sharing all the background to their projects, and you start to just it just grow, you you just grow with the role. Um it also means that it's consistent for the students when they come in to tech, there's always a familiar face and they they feel confident and comfortable around you um knowing that you know your stuff, if that makes sense.

Alison Hardy 4:06

Yeah.

Moving From Pupils To Departments

Sarah Paley 4:07

Um, and it really helps build a really good relationship with the teachers as well. I think when you're going from class to class, department to department, it's really hard to make connections with staff. Um, it's a fleeting chat here and there at the beginning or the end of a lesson, and then you're on to the next. And you could be going across campus, so it ends up being sort of a I'm really sorry, I've got to go. Um, whereas when you're in the department all day, you're you're building up an idea of everyone's teaching styles or what they might need you to get out ready, or you actually have time to have that quick conversation or debrief and going from one lesson to another because you're only going next door, so um, or upstairs. So it works really, really well.

Alison Hardy 4:49

Um right. And so can you tell me about some typical lessons? So I presume you've been in design and technology today. So tell me about some of the things that happened in the lessons today.

Sarah Paley 5:00

Um, well, it's really varied, um, as any tech teacher would know. Um, and I love that I can go one minute I'm doing a practical cooking lesson, the next minute I'm sewing in the textiles room, then I'm downstairs working with wood, then we're on computer doing some sort of CAD design. Um, so it's really, really varied and really enjoyable in that way. And I just feel like my skill set widens every time. And also being able to go, right, okay, switch that hat on. I've got have had my chef hat on, now I've got my my workshop hat on. Um, and I really like that. It it keeps it interesting and engaging. Um, so a typical day for us could be any of those things. Today there was um lots of cover, as unfortunately we were a staff member down. Right. Um, so there was lots of um lots more kind of um computer-based work and textbook-based work than than normal. But then I was in with year 10 doing their um NEAs and their practical practices. So again, getting stuck in aprons on and helping them conduct experiments. So, yeah, it's been quite an interesting day.

Alison Hardy 6:17

So, in terms of your role as in learning support in a lesson, what what sort of form does that take then?

Sarah Paley 6:26

It really varies depending on the needs of that particular student and also the context of the lesson. So, for example, a practical lesson, uh, sometimes students with any kind of additional need might actually come into their own in that particular lesson. They might be quite comfortable and confident when it's practical, and it might be the more sort of written or reading and writing-based lessons where um I'm needed more by those students. And usually if they're comfortable and confident doing a practical lesson, I might be needed by somebody else who can cope with reading and writing-based activities really well. But when the practical element comes in, they're suddenly the winds come out of their cells a little bit and they're a bit nervous or worried or not confident in their skills, and then I find myself assisting them. Right. So even though we are there for specific students, um, generally our focus is on our EHCP students naturally, um, or anybody that's on the send register or provision map, we will help everybody.

Alison Hardy 7:32

I'm just gonna hold you there because some people listening won't know some of those terms. So ECH ECHP. EHCP, EHCP. Okay, there we go.

What A DT Day Looks Like

Sarah Paley 7:43

So that is an educational healthcare plan. So um that plan is put in place for somebody, usually with a diagnosis, usually where outside agencies have been involved, um, and they've come together and written a plan that's really individualized and specific to that student and helps them get the right targeted support in their lessons. Um, and also with often one-to-one support with some kind of role in the school with an LSA, or it could be with the Senko, or it could be with another trusted adult. And that's done in conjunction with county and with the Senko and with the parents and the student. So everyone's views come together. Sometimes external um support is a is we take advice as well from there, and that formulates the EHCP educational healthcare plan. Um, and that is a legal document, so any support that's outlined in there, it is our legal obligation that that must be given, and there could be allocated funding for that as well. So it's really important that those students get that support. So those students are always our priority and anybody with any identified need. Um, but just when you're in the classroom and you see somebody in in need, you're gonna jump in and help anyway. Yeah, so I wouldn't say that we only focus on those students. Uh we'll help whoever needs help. Right.

Alison Hardy 9:16

Okay, so obviously I don't want you to reveal any details about children, okay. That's not that's not what I'm asking. But but I think what people would be interested in finding out a little bit more about is uh what might some of the children who've got a plan. What's the some sort of the specific support you find yourself giving or planning to give in a D ⁇ T lesson? I think some people might because not everybody will have the benefit of having somebody like you in in the lesson. So I think it'd be really interesting for other people to hear a little bit about that, about what works well and what what sort of role you take in those situations.

What Learning Support Looks Like

Sarah Paley 10:00

Well, it really depends on the needs of the student, but uh quite often we find it we could be dealing with someone who's got maybe some sensory needs. Right. So we might be putting things in place like ear defenders, or for example, a student had a particular aversion to certain smells in food tech. And um, it was actually the student's idea. He used a face mask and he wore it um and he used some scented drops inside the face mask um so that when he was working with that particular food, he could just smell his favourite essential oil smell instead. Um, things like that we're facilitating. Things like maybe supporting somebody, understanding instructions. It could be that they've been a bit distracted and they've missed sections of the instructions that have been given by the teacher, or it could be that their processing skills are a bit slower than other students, so they maybe have just missed some key details. So we often find ourselves going back over instructions to ensure their understanding. Um we're always trying to encourage independence, so much as we're there to support, we're trying to provide a bit of targeted support and then try to step away and see what the student can achieve on their own and just keep touching base with them regularly throughout the lesson. Um we are also doing a lot of help with staying on task because quite often if somebody's feeling anxious or maybe that they don't fully understand, they'll look for something else to occupy their time or become quickly distracted or focusing on what's more interesting to them, and we're kind of trying to bring them back to staying on task, really. Um, so lots of recapping of key information, um, lots of adapting. I mean, our teachers do a great job of adapting activities for our send students anyway. Um, but sometimes we'll just see a point where even though it's been adapted, there's still missing sections or something else needs to be expanded on, or we might even just take a piece of paper and go and blow it up and make it a bit bigger, just so that they're getting a better access. Um, and that's what it's all about, really, just allowing them to access the information and achieve the same outcomes just in their own way and facilitating that as best we can.

Alison Hardy 12:28

Right, okay, okay. That's just it's just useful to kind of get that insight. I think that's really interesting. I think I think the role of LSAs like yourself is really developed. I remember a time, you know, when we when you know, when I worked in schools, not for a long time, the LSA, as you were saying, had that more uh common approach of following the pupil around. Um, and sometimes, yeah, as the class teacher, you felt like you wanted to be able to say, could could you step back a little bit? But because you didn't have that relationship, because they were coming in and then going out again. So it wasn't a not a criticism of anybody, but it was you didn't have that opportunity. So you obviously get that within your departments as well to understand, you have a better understanding then of when it's right to step back. Definitely.

Sarah Paley 13:17

Um, it's nice to have the autonomy and that we know what we're doing and that the teacher can trust us with certain things, but equally knowing when to step back or to step to the side or to take someone to the side if they need a moment. Yeah. Um, it's it's it's definitely um it's definitely something that's different depending on the teacher as well. You get to know what they like, what they don't like, um, what they prefer, um, and you try to sort of work around that. And and and equally they get to know you and they get to know your strengths and where they they might say, Oh, that that's really great what you're doing, but any chance you could go over and help him because he's really struggling, and I'll take over here. Yeah. And then it becomes like a teamwork thing, and I think that works really effectively.

EHCP Explained In Plain Terms

Alison Hardy 14:03

Right. Okay. So that yeah, I can see as you build up that relationship, but I suppose the drawback is, and this isn't kind of where we're going in the conversation, but the the drawback is that because the child then has they've they've come from one lesson to another, you don't necessarily know what's happened in the previous lesson as they as they come in. That's that's the that's the downside of this approach, I would assume, isn't it? Is you know, I yeah, I know somebody who would, you know, who who followed a student. I was talking about this person last night uh in the episode, who followed a student who had Asperger's ADHD, Tourette's dyspraxia, um, and and would recognise when the student needed to take longer before they came into the next lesson. So there's a lot of things.

Sarah Paley 14:56

I mean, sometimes on those occasions we've had an LSA come from another department with them, walk them in and just give us a heads up or a nod. Sometimes there's a note on the system. Um, but quite often we've got a really we're really fortunate that we have a fantastic student services department. They tend to focus more on the social, emotional, mental health side of supporting the students, whereas our role tends to be more focused on the learning. But there's a natural crossover. Yeah, of course. Um, and we're really fortunate that that that department runs throughout the school day. So anytime a student's having a wobbly moment, they can use their time out card or just ask to go to student services. So often, in that scenario that you were saying, um the student would have taken themselves off or asked to go down to student services and they just won't appear at the beginning of the lesson, and there'll be a note on the register to say where they are, and they'll just get that little bit of support to help them transition to the next session. So hopefully we're covering that off and and um and trying not, but inevitably it does happen that they flounce in and you're not quite sure what's going on, and you've got to try and establish the facts before they before they um panic and want to leave.

Alison Hardy 16:11

So so let's go back to what what you're doing in the classroom. You talked about adaptations. You talked about sometimes it's about, for example, taking taking the instructions and and making them larger so the children can read them or they can make notes on them. What other sorts of adaptations are you doing with different pupils?

Sensory Support And Clear Instructions

Sarah Paley 16:29

Um, so in the past, we've done um, I'm thinking of specific students who had some mobility and movement coordination issues due to their conditions. Um, things that we've done in the past, adaptive equipment in food tech has been really effective. So chopping boards with suction pads underneath to stop the boards moving around. And you can buy ones that have these um, they're sort of, I'm trying to think of the words, like a like a pegs that stick out, um, yeah, spikes almost, and the vegetable can be put onto that. So then that nothing's moving around. Yeah, and it just gives them a little bit more opportunity to coordinate themselves. Sometimes it's a case of just, you know, I was working with a student who's who was doing food tech GCC. Um, it's all about how much you can upskill and show off your flair of what you're doing when you've got cerebral palsy. You can't cut Julian uh carrots into a tiny thin strip. It's it's really difficult. So we have to find other ways to upskill. Um and it could be that the the there's lots of skills involved in that inner recipe or more complex skills, and then that student can uh show off but use um electric um food processes instead of having to chop everything up. So they're still getting the same outcome, they're still showing um a variety of skills, they've got all those different layers of um flavor going on, maybe multiple courses, um, but they've just had a little bit of extra help with the preparation side of things. And that's been really good because we the last thing any of us would want to do is hold a student back. We want them to achieve their potential and beyond as much as possible. That's our job to facilitate that achievement and so that they we they reach the point they're aiming for. Um, and we're just there to to guide, really. But I think that's really important putting those things in place so that they still get to show off and that they're not being held back in any way, even though they might not be able to do what other students can do.

Alison Hardy 18:43

Right. Okay, yeah, that's really interesting. It it's quite interesting, isn't it? Because sometimes actually using the food processor is the best technique anyway.

Sarah Paley 18:51

Yeah, it is. And obviously it's nice to show off your nice skills, but if you're struggling with coordination, that could just be really frustrating and and really knock your confidence.

Alison Hardy 19:02

Yeah.

Sarah Paley 19:02

And we want to build them up and motivate them and help them achieve the best that they can in in every lesson, and and especially when it comes to their GCSEs, they've picked it because they love it and because they're passionate about it, and we've just got to help them get there and find a way around barriers.

Alison Hardy 19:23

So you said that some of the teachers were really good at doing adaptations as well. Have you got any do you want to do you want don't have to name any names because they're probably all gonna listen? But you know, do you want to give any gold stars out for adaptations that the teachers are making? Best practice that you're seeing, let's put it that way. Good practice.

Practical Adaptations In Food Tech

Sarah Paley 19:43

Visual aids. Visual aids are always really good for students. I mean, they're good for all students. Um I think if someone's if if you're trying to teach children, students to make, I don't know, let's say joints out of wood, if you haven't got a model of what it could look like, I don't want to say should because it looks like whatever it looks like at the end, but but examples, tangible visual examples of what it could look like, um, are really, really vital for all students, but especially for somebody who might struggle to process what you're telling them in 3D. Yeah. Um, I certainly struggle with that. Quite often, if someone gives me a lay plan or some kind of um organizational diagram, I still want to see the 3D image to know how it transfers from one to the other. And that's as an adult. So it's really important to have visual aids, not just photographs, but something that students can touch and feel. Take apart. Yeah. Exactly. And sometimes it's the taking apart that helps you know how to construct it in the first place. If that makes sense. Yeah, no, um, yeah, yeah. Step-by-step photographs, that's a real gold star for one particular teacher. She's really good at that.

Alison Hardy 21:05

Oh, you can't. I'm gonna assume I'm gonna assume there's more than one female teacher in the department.

Sarah Paley 21:13

But okay, right. Several of them do it, but it it's it's fantastic. It's almost like that little handbook that you need, especially if, for example, you come in to that lesson and you maybe haven't made that project for several terms, you come back to it and you think, oh my goodness, how do I construct this hat? I can't visualize it. Um, if there's photographs and step-by-step booklets, and they all use them. They were made originally for send students, but all the students use them because they just need that little prompt. Perhaps they were looking out the window when it was explained. Perhaps they missed the lessons they were doing cross country. It's just really handy to have those um resources there and just as a bit of a backup. It's a lot to remember.

Alison Hardy 22:01

No, no, no. It's okay. It's a lot to remember when when they're watching a demonstration. You know, it is it can be cognitive overload, really. Definitely. And and and I think, well, if if I'm following instructions, I I keep the recipe. I don't kind of watch the demonstration, then go away and do it and have to memorize it.

Sarah Paley 22:19

So yeah. So that's a really good point about recipes as well. Um, we used to give the students recipe books and they would always forget them, and we were constantly reprinting and things like that. Now we just keep a set at school and they're A4 size instead of A5. They're always out on the table. You can just go and help yourself. And it's just one less thing for them to remember remember. And they've always got visuals in, they're always step by step, they're always laid out in the same way. Those sorts of um repetitive patterns and well-structured resources are really great. Right.

Alison Hardy 22:53

Okay, so we've got step-by-step photos. Photos. Any any other top tips?

Sarah Paley 23:01

Um, I mean, it's always tricky, but processing time is really important for students with additional needs, and time we're always time poor in a school environment. Um, and naturally, teachers have got things to get through and they've got to get the content delivered. Um, but any extra processing time that can be given, even if it's I don't know, it's really difficult to give certain students extra processing time and not everybody else. Um, and equally, if you give too much time, it can be distracting for those who've already finished and then they they're coming off task. It's a really difficult balance to strike, but any way possible that processing time can be extended, or even put your LSA to say, right, just go back over that bit with them, help them process that last bit of information again. I'll go, I'll move on slightly with this group, and then you can come and join us. So how are some strategies like that?

Alison Hardy 23:58

So, how would you support children with that processing time? Can you give me an example?

Sarah Paley 24:07

I think just recapping, revisiting, um, sometimes it's even getting in there before that lesson. So, if once you've known the content and you maybe know what's coming in the next few lessons, pre-teaching of vocab key vocabulary and things like that, so that they've already got that lockdown before they then have to deal with that vocabulary is a good strategy that we use sometimes. Um, even just reading things aloud, quite often it's really easy to put instructions up on a board and say, right, there's your task, off you go. Um, because you're keen to get started. The kids are keen to get started and there's lots to get through. So just taking a moment to go, right, what's Miss R to do? Should we read it through and just make sure that it's making it from the board into your brain and then transferring into what you're actually doing physically?

Alison Hardy 24:58

Yeah, reading aloud. I mean, it's so obvious, but it it sometimes we don't stop and and think, you know, um as as as educators about about that processing time uh and how how we structure it, whether it's whether it's helping them to make a note, you know, or even putting the cards in order about which ones do you think we're going to do first, then isn't it? That's it. Just taking a breath.

Visual Aids That Reduce Overload

Sarah Paley 25:26

And even sometimes breaking down a task even further. So there might be three tasks on the board, but number one task has got multiple layers to it, um, which is really overwhelming for somebody, just saying, okay, well, let's break that one down even more, let's make it one A, B, and C rather than just number one. Um it's just little things that, and sometimes I don't even think we realise we're doing it. Like you've asked me to give some examples. I think that they're they're just things that we do without even thinking, right? You were thinking, right, how can I make this more accessible? We've we're we're clearly bogged down and overwhelmed and a bit lost. So let's break it down even further and simplify it. And like you say, it sounds really obvious and you just sort of do it naturally, but equally it's it's easy for those things to get lost in the rush of the day.

Alison Hardy 26:18

Yeah, so I could see post-it notes becoming really helpful. Do you know if like you know, teachers putting like we're doing these three things, and as you say, we write things up. Um you're making me think about my undergraduate teaching I'm gonna do tomorrow. Um, and you write, you write things up, but you don't realize that there's actually lots of implicit things within it. That's it. And yeah, you can see, right, if if if the child was with you or they were, you know, you could even give them a post-it note pack and just say, right, let's let's let's break down what you think the tasks are to be able to do that. Right, let's do those on a different right, let's just check what order we could approach them in. Is is there an order we have to do them in, or does it matter? And and at least then that way they can like tick it off, can't they? And they they've they've engaged with that and in opposed to the feels like they've achieved something as well, because that's another thing.

Sarah Paley 27:15

If you've got three tasks list up on the board and they look up and they think, oh, I'm never gonna get through all of that, um, even the power of only revealing one task at a time, giving them time to giving the whole class time to do task one, then stopping and pausing and going through task two and then continuing, that's quite powerful in itself, even just breaking it down that it's not even visible.

Alison Hardy 27:38

Yeah. Or it sometimes um one of my colleagues has done some research about doing demonstrations and design and technology. Um, you know, because they're a keen, they're a key pedagogical approach we use in D ⁇ T, but sometimes we don't think about how we're again cognitive overload in a demonstration. Um and and how how much so even in that sort of situation, if there's three break, three, three things, and as you say, you you could just give the overview. This is what we're working on, this lesson, and there's gonna be three steps, and I'm going to help you manage those three steps. Yeah. So let's have a look at those three steps, right? And then let's cover two up. Yeah. And then let's stop and think about. I'm going to give you a couple of moments just to think about what the order is. There's no competition, there's no race. Just take the pressure off. And when you're ready, you move into doing it. And I'll give you notice when we're getting towards the end of the time that we're going to work on this, but you're not to worry if you don't get it finished.

Sarah Paley 28:48

Because there is some students that will never get past task one, and it's really feels quite defeating for them.

Alison Hardy 28:56

Yeah. Because there is also something about satisfaction, completion, and withdrawal, which is a psychological theory, a gestalt theory about, you know, you need so when do you give children that satisfaction? You know, no, completion, satisfaction, withdrawal. Do you know what I mean? So you complete it, you acknowledge the satisfaction of completing it, and then you're able to withdraw by moving away from that onto what whatever the next thing is. And that that's that's really that's really powerful.

Sarah Paley 29:31

I did a um a training course recently. Um it's it's run by O'Leavy and it's called the Outstanding Teaching Assistant Programme. Um, and part of the course we had to devise some sort of resource um that we could then take back to school and and use. And one of things that all students like is ticking something off when it's done. And actually, don't we all? As adults, we love that.

Processing Time And Task Breakdown

Alison Hardy 29:59

Some kind of journalists. Hold up my bullet journal with my little squares I I colour in to indicate that I've done that job, you know.

Sarah Paley 30:07

Yeah. Um, it's satisfying and it makes you feel like you've achieved something. And so my project that I've that I came up with was it was based on something that I found on the um EEF website, which is the Yeah, Education Endowment Foundation. Endowment foundation, yeah. So it's all research based. And again, the course sort of signposted me to that website. Um, and I sort of did looked at looked around. And it was a task planner, and I just kind of rewrote it for our school and for our students and the sorts of things that I thought that they needed. And it was really just a breakdown of what are we trying to achieve today? There was a little opportunity to to tick a box, there was also an opportunity to allocate time to it because time management's a massive thing for students with send, in fact, any students, but students would send definitely, how long is that going to take me? How do I know how long that's going to take me? How long should it take me? Just outlining that sometimes um is enough. Um, and also there was a little bit at the bottom that there would be some sort of reward or some sort of um acknowledgement at the end that if they got through all of those things, or even through one of them, that there was a merit at the end, or that there was a, I don't know, a shout-out, or however your school does it. Um, and I tried it out on a few students and it it was really interesting because one of them, um, when we broke down the tasks, the immediate feeling was, oh, I'm never going to get through all of those things. And I was like, it doesn't matter, you're just gonna try. And um the tick the ticks appeared, and by the end of the lesson, all three ticks were there, and he was like, I can't believe I've done it. I've ticked everything off. And it was the same list that the teacher had on the board, but we'd written it in a way that in language that he understood better. We'd also there was a little box on there for keywords, so we'd uh outlined what the keywords were, checked that he understood them. Um, and then those ticks meant everything. Oh, they're powerful. He wasn't even that bothered about the merit.

Alison Hardy 32:08

It was like, wow, we've done it. I've I've got through something. Because it's an internal satisfaction. That's actually what you're giving them. Is rather than the external motivation, you're giving them an internal motivation to do it. So there's that internal and extrinsic. Yeah. Um, so yeah, you're making me think around that. So it might be worth looking at bullet journals. So the guy who designed bullet journals, he has ADHD. Okay. And uh he struggled to focus and um concentrate on his task list because his mind would be coming up with new ideas and new things, and so he has this, and so I it's it's very common. Um, yeah, and I I know I've I've got a couple of academic friends where we do it because we're kind of managing multiple things, but yeah, I I I get excited. We might even talk and I thought, oh yeah, I've done that. I've got a I've gonna I do it because I colour in a little box, you know, I have a little triangle if it's a if it's an activity, and I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna show and tell now. So yeah, so I plan out my week, you know, so so I know what I'm doing, and then it helps me think about whether I'm overloading on a day.

Sarah Paley 33:16

And it makes you feel calmer, I think.

Alison Hardy 33:18

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Paley 33:20

Because you've but by doing that, you've processed a lot of the information already, and you've set yourself some targets and you've it's manageable, and I think when you write it for yourself, you do it in your own way, works really well, yeah.

Task Planners And Motivation That Sticks

Alison Hardy 33:33

And we do do something else with um, I work with a colleague with um around academic writing, and um, because you know, obviously in academia we're kind of expected to write, write a lot, but to be motivated can be quite difficult, and we also be get really ambitious. And um, I I run writing retreats and I I use this colleague's um model, and she gets us to write targets at the beginning of the day. Okay, right. So but to be really specific, and we have to write them in full sentences because her logic is well, you're gonna be writing in full sentences to get the practice in. You know, and then for each target, you have to say how many words that is gonna be. Ooh. So that helps keep you focused because you think, well, if I'm gonna write an abstract, for example, that's normally 250 to 400 words, or I'm going to write um my literature review. And I can hear her saying, no, you're not gonna write literature view, which have you got an outline? Have you structured it? Do you know how many words you're doing in each bit? Do what the focus is, and so she's doing exactly the same thing that you're talking about. So then when we start a session, we don't write for more than an hour and a half, we have to say out loud what our target is to somebody else. And we never go back to that person because you're not being monitored. You always go to talk to somebody else, which is really interesting. But saying it out loud helps you, yeah. And then the other person can give you feedback. Is that too much? Is that too little? Right. And then you sit and you write, and she starts just by very calmly. And I do this in my writing retreats, let's write. And then I give a five-minute warning, you know, we're gonna finish in five minutes, and when we do finish, I say, right, make sure you saved your work, write down what you've got done and what you're going to do next. Okay, and then when we come back after the break, it's easy. But the key thing is at the end of the day, we reflect on the targets that we thought we were going to achieve. So, like you were saying about putting on the times, how long they thought it would take. So we do it with words, is I said I was gonna write 1500 words today. Actually, I've written 1200, but I've done three diagrams, or I've done 1200 because actually, and over time you start to get a better understanding of, well, if I'm doing that sort of writing, that's realistic. If I'm doing that sort of writing, you know, if I'm gonna be doing if I'm doing analysis, go, I'm not gonna get more than 400 words done in an hour and a half. But if I'm doing the description of my method of my data collection, I could write, you know, it's gonna be like dead quick because it's you're just writing a process. And so that's another way of maybe thinking about a modification, is like, well, was I was I realistic? And so then that helps them, so then it helps them understand for the next time is looking back and thinking, okay, if I didn't get all that done, maybe I need to be, you know, take a little bit of a different approach. Yeah, it's it's quite so I like the idea of your task planner. Sorry, I've kind of gone off on a bit of a tangent there. That's all right. But that's that's that's quite an interesting approach, and you can see children that you're working with in DNT, particularly on a on a on a design project, you know, being able to do that for themselves.

Sarah Paley 36:58

And sometimes a practical lesson can be a bit overwhelming. You walk in and you know that you're working towards the end project, but there's so many little steps in the way, and think, well, how many of those am I going to get done today? And how many people are using the saws and how many people are using the sandpaper, and will they be enough for me? And yeah, just planning it and structuring it and also um adapting it. We adapted it for um for the NEA. Sometimes when you're working on sections of the NEA with students, um, you know, certain sections are are longer than the others, or they're more visual, or and it knowing how long they should be, how long it's gonna take.

Alison Hardy 37:36

Yes, it's definitely helped. So we've got some good practice. All right, so we're not gonna name any names of the teachers, but have you have you so we always do uh with our student teachers, um two keep doings, two one stop doing and one do more of. Okay. Oh no, one do one one start doing. Okay. One start doing okay. So so this this is a safe place, Eric. You can you can you can say out loud.

Sarah Paley 38:06

So what do you want the one doing on one stop stop doing? Okay, you've put me on the spot now. I have um I don't know if there's nothing if there's nothing that's absolutely fine.

Alison Hardy 38:27

I have put you on the spot.

Sarah Paley 38:29

But but maybe there's so much that the department do well and that the staff do well that should be celebrated, really. Right. Um I I was I was being unfair. I was being unfair. I'll have a think. It's one start doing, one stop doing.

Alison Hardy 38:49

Um it sounds like you've got a good relationship anyway, so yeah, we really do.

Being Treated As Part Of The Team

Sarah Paley 38:57

Um I've I I think what I love about our department is I'm included in every lesson. It's um it's ask me or miss. They always refer to me when they're giving their instructions to the students. If you need help, just come and ask me or ask miss. I'm part of the team. Yeah. Um, I always get thanked. And then because they've thanked me, the students thank me on the way out, which is lovely. Um, I'm always encouraged, I'm always put forward for courses or training, even little things like um, I'm on the I'm on the department WhatsApp, you know. Um, I get invited to socials that they go out on as a team, which, you know, I don't, I would never expect that. It that's their downtime, but they they always include us, because there's a there's a couple of us actually. Um it's mostly me, but there is a couple of LSAs that work across tech as well, not just me. We're all invited, we're all asked our thoughts. Um, even things like at the end of the year when all the results come out, um, or when they're dealing with subject uptake, we're included on all of the emails. Oh, we've got this many for next year. So we're part of the department. Yeah. Um, you're part of the planning, not just not just the lessons. Exactly. Their results are shared, uh, their progress is shared. Um, so then whilst the teachers are targeting certain areas, we also know what they're targeting, so we can support that too. Um that that's really important. Keep doing. That's my keep doing.

Alison Hardy 40:32

That's a really good keep doing. That's a that's such a powerful, yeah. Because the the culture maybe has been in the past as you know, the the Senko and the LSAs were seen as very separate, and it sounds like your approach is much more integrated and part of the team.

Sarah Paley 40:49

It definitely feels that way, and I think the students feel that too when they come in the room. Yeah, that's that's a real that's a real and sometimes they'll come over to me and go, Miss, I've forgotten my apron. I'm like, you still have to go and tell sir that you forgot it over to me. And yeah, it's gonna be like then you build that relationship, and that's an interesting one actually that we haven't touched on. Um the interest, the difference between how the students treat teachers compared to how they treat LSAs, and and there is a marked difference, even though the respect level um across the school it it it's any member of staff you treat with respect, and and they do, but there's there is a slight difference. There's almost like a a softer um approach. They will come and talk to me about things that they won't go and admit to the teacher, like that. I forgot my apron or can I go to the toilet, knowing the teacher's gonna say no, and they think I'm gonna say yes.

Alison Hardy 41:52

Yes, so it's good, good cop, bad cop.

Sarah Paley 41:55

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes we do do that, um, you know, if we need to, because we have to maintain that relationship with the students. I mean, teachers do too, but but we do have that that closeness where you are often one-to-one with the student, and and if they don't trust you or feel comfortable around you, um, it it makes our job much harder. Yeah, yeah.

Alison Hardy 42:20

Well, look, Sarah, it's just been a real delight. It's been a real delight chatting to you. And I know I kind of put you on the spot there, but um, you know, and I hope you don't mind that. I kind of talked a little bit in the middle about bullet journals and tasks, but I thought that was that was really interesting about the work that you've done. Um and that that processing, I think that is such a powerful message that hopefully people listening will will take away about giving that processing time.

Sarah Paley 42:47

Thanks for giving me some time to talk about the role and um to talk about tech. It's great. Yeah, it is a privilege.

Alison Hardy 42:54

Yeah, it's no, it's a privilege, it's a privilege to have the time with you, so thank you. Because we're we're talking what it's seven minutes past nine on a Wednesday evening, and uh you found the time to to to chat with me, and I really I really do appreciate that. So thanks ever so much.

Sarah Paley 43:08

Well, thank you for the invitation. Go and admit to the teacher like that. I forgot my acronym or can I go to the toilet knowing the teacher's gonna say no? And sometimes we do do that, um, you know, if we need to, because we have to maintain that relationship with the students. I mean, teachers do too, but but we do have that that closeness where you are often one-to-one with the student, and and if they don't trust you or feel comfortable around you, um, it it makes our job much harder.

Alison Hardy 43:38

Yeah, yeah. Well, look, Sarah, it's just been a real delight. It's been a real delight chatting to you. And I know I kind of put you on the spot there, but um, you know, and I hope you don't mind that. I kind of talked a little bit in the middle about bullet journals and tasks, but I thought that was that was really interesting about the work that you've done. Um and that that processing, I think that's

Sarah Paley 44:00

Is such a powerful message that hopefully people listening will will take away about giving that processing time and giving me some time to talk about the role and um that's great. Yeah, it is a privilege.

Final Takeaways And How To Connect

Alison Hardy 44:14

Yeah it is no, it's a privilege it's a privilege to have the time with you, so thank you. Because we're we're talking what it's seven minutes past nine on a Wednesday evening, and uh you found the time to to to chat with me and I really I really do appreciate that. So thanks ever so much. Well thank you for the invitation. I'm Dr. Alison Hardy and you've been listening to the Talking DT Podcast. If you enjoyed the podcast, then do subscribe on whatever platform you use and do consider leaving a review as it does help others find the podcast. I do the podcast because I want to support the DT community in developing their practice, so please do share the podcast with your DT community. If you want to respond to something I've talked about or have an idea for a future episode, then either leave me a voice memo via Speakpipe or drop me an email. You can find details about me, the podcast, and how to connect with me on my website, dralisonhardy.com. Also, if you want to support the podcast financially, you can become a patron. Links to Speakpipe, Patreon, and my website are in the show notes. Thanks for listening.